Thanks for the clarification Narkissos. You guys have been mentioning several interesting points regarding other religions of the time. (I can honestly say I am not acquainted with Pauline theology.) Well, one of the things that I have been wondering about for some time is?. The Israelites spent a good deal of their time in Egypt. In fact there was quite a number of Egyptians that supposedly headed out of their homeland during the Exodus. Is anyone here acquainted with Egyptian religions? I think I remember reading somewhere that the Egyptians were actually not too terrible of a people. It was a matriarchal society, fairly civilized. That being said, I really am still learning about the religion that the people practiced. Is it possible, then, that the Israelites, during their time in Egypt, took on some of the religious rites of their Egyptian masters?
BlackSwan of Memphis
JoinedPosts by BlackSwan of Memphis
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87
Does Jehovah accept human sacrafice or not?
by gumby inhere's good bedtime story for the little ones!.
remember jeptha and his beautiful daughter that was his only child?.
just to set the theme: the ammonites took over israels land while they were in bondage in egypt.
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87
Does Jehovah accept human sacrafice or not?
by gumby inhere's good bedtime story for the little ones!.
remember jeptha and his beautiful daughter that was his only child?.
just to set the theme: the ammonites took over israels land while they were in bondage in egypt.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
ok....
you guys really know yer stuff! Cool!
Ok. Gumby, yeah, I agree, everything points to the fact that the poor kid was toast. What I had been referring to was the whole making the frivilous vow and smoke offering thing. But to tell ya the truth....
Narkissos... uhm. ok... I am really tired. And I have read and reread your point, but while I Know that everyone else get's what yer saying. Um, ( I feel so stupid) .... Dumb it down for your average American airhead. I am not sure of what you're trying to say. Plus it's a Saturday night and I've had a couple drinks and what not.
Anyhoooo... I remember seeing this on a Discovery channel show a year ago and was shocked that the rest of the world was under the impression that this poor girl was a burnt offering. I looked it up in my good ol' NWT and was fairly confident. After reading so many different things, yeah, it doesn't look good for this girl.
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Does Jehovah accept human sacrafice or not?
by gumby inhere's good bedtime story for the little ones!.
remember jeptha and his beautiful daughter that was his only child?.
just to set the theme: the ammonites took over israels land while they were in bondage in egypt.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
Ok I looked this up in my new Quest bible, it?s a NIV. What?s really interesting about this bible is that it tackles these hard questions. Now, I completely understand if when people read this, they think the arguments are not quite enough, it?s just a thought from a nonjw source that gives an explanation based on traditional Christianity.
Ok, as far as the vow that Jepthah made to God?.
Interestingly, Judges chapter 11 verses 29 through 31 make the point that holy spirit had come upon Jepthah when he made the vow. So, did the holy spirit make him make this vow in the first place? In a sidebar it makes the point that ?possessing holy spirit for a special assignment does not guarantee a person will be faultless in other areas of life. Jepthah?s vow was an attempt to strike a deal with God instead of trusting him.? Then it points to Leviticus 5:4 (Or if a person thoughtlessly takes an oath to do anything, whether good or evil- in any matter one might carelessly swear about- even though he is unaware of it, in any case when he learns of it he will be guilty. Vs. 5 says When anyone is guilty in any of these ways, he must confess in what way he has sinned 6, and as a penalty for the sin he has committed he must bring to the Lord a female lamb or goat from the flock as a sin offering and the priest shall atonement for him for his sin.?) The side bar to that is ?How could someone take an oath and not know it? This refers to an oath made before all the implications have been considered. The phrase describing such an oath could literally be translated chattering with the lips talking without thinking. A broken oath was considered a serious offense in the ancient world, especially if it had been made to God. This explains why Joshua kept the vows made when deceived by the Gibeonites and why Jepthah kept his foolish vow.?
Then when you actually get to the verses pertaining to when his daughter comes out to greet him and he freaks?.
The sidebar brings up Deuteronomy 23:21 through 23. Joshua 9:19 and Ecclesiastes 5:1 through 5. It asks the question can God be honored by human sacrifice? ? No, fulfilling a vow was a high priority in ancient times, Joshua and Jepthah apparently didn?t want to be humiliated by reversing his promise. But God had outlawed human sacrifice. God disapproves of sin, even one committed to fulfill a vow. ?
Ok. After reading all of these things, my first thought was yeah, it makes sense. You can?t bargain with God. His daughter went along with it because she understood the importance of the vow. She didn?t want to dishonor her father. After all, when she took off to the wilderness for 2 months she could have taken her chances in the wilderness and left town. She didn?t. Why not? Because it was a vow.
Now as far as Jepthah being a bastard. The only thing I really found that the reason why he was chosen for the service was because no one else stepped up to do the job.
All this being said?.
1) If human sacrifice was a detestable thing to God, why is there no record that Jepthah was punished for his mistake?
2) There is no record that Jepthah made the appropriate sacrifice to God regarding his frivolous vow.
Hope I haven?t stepped on any toes and repeated anything.
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Spies in the congregation
by chappy inthe article that bothered me the most was when they said if you work in a doctors office you must report to the elders if a brother or sister comes to the doctor with a (questionable) problem..
i read this comment by galaxy7 in an older post, never heard this before.
does anyone know which publication?.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
Funny isn't it that they can be so up in arms over the situations described....yet when an elder or elderette or a congregation favorite is a known child molestor, gossipper, drinker etc. it can be looked over rather easily. I wonder if they consider themselves "blood guilty" for not taking care of the wrongdoing, somehow I doubt it.
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Good Eighties Music
by the_classicist incan you recommend anything.
i've already got pink floyd, queen, etc.
can you make some suggestions in the area of rock and electro?
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BlackSwan of Memphis
here's a few names i fondly remember:
Styx, The Outfield, Colin Hayes, Rush, Def Leppard, John Waite ( The Baby's), Billy Idol, Lita Ford, Greg Kihn, Milli Vanilli (lol), Wham!, Blondie, Toni Basil, The Thompson Twins, Howard Jones, Tears for Fears (though they're still 'round) Robert Plant, Missing Persons, Pat Benatar...
Oh, then there's always the Psychedelic Furs. Modern English. My personal 80's favorite was The Church. the Clash, the GoGo's, the Bangles, Kim Wilde, A-Ha, Culture Club, Pretenders, Joan Jett, Oh... yeah....Rick Springfield (HELLO!!) OH,Night Ranger ...Jack Blades (double hello) .... I better stop before I start singing Sister Christian all night or oh wait one more...this man rocks Ted Nugent!! Oh wait JGeils, theCars... ((((aaaaaaggghh must get hair feathered and frosted)))......(((hand reaches for can of Aqua Net)))
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PROVE That Jehovah's Witnesses DON'T Have The Truth
by minimus injws are convinced they alone have the truth.
they are scripturally trained to prove to others why they are "in the truth".
from your vantage point, how can you show this is untrue??
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BlackSwan of Memphis
Going along with Sister Blondie's comment
Matthew chapter 7 verses one and two tell us ...
"Do not judge and critisize and condemn others, so that you may not be judged and critisized and condemned yourselves. For just as you judge and critisize and condemn others you will be judged and critisized and condemned and in accordance with the measure you use to deal out to others it will be dealt out again to you." (amplified bible)
<<<< is this mic on??>>>>
After looking at the list they themselves provided, wow, I remembered the day I went through the scriptural "proof" they had and using a black pen to scratch out all the scriptures that were listed as I looked them up and realised how badly they had botched the reasoning. If they can dish it.....
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I never thought I'd have to tell my kids....
by FreedomFrog inwhat are some of the things you had to say to your kids you didn't think you'd ever have to say?
if you don't have kids you can give some examples of any family member or friends.. here are mine to my 6 year old:.
"quit licking the car.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
things i tell my kids:
"Don't eat the cat's food"
"You cannot ride your hot wheels down the stairs"
"No throwing frying pans"
"My lipstick is not for drawing on the walls"
"No, no... don't eat the china"
if i think of more i'll let ya know Congrats on making junior member freedom frog
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Hello, I need a few JW views on a couple of bible verses. Thanks!
by Chance inhello jw forums,.
after careful study i was curious to hear the views & interpretations of a bible verse from a few jws.. .
after reading each of the following verses ask yourself, what does that verse mean?.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
hey chance.... yeah most here are ex jw... however i did want to take a minute to address one of your questions which i thought was interesting....
you brought up the issue about why the pharisees would have accused jesus of blasphemy for saying he was the son of God. Interestingly you didn't really go much further.... I have a thought from Ron Rhodes which I thought you might really like.
He brings up the point that in the ancient days to say "Son of" did not necessarily mean offspring of. In fact he cites a couple of different verses where it carries the meaning of "in the order of" You might want to note these verses: 1 Kings 20:35 where it says "the sons of the prophets" and Nehemiah 12:28 where it says "sons of the singers".
In the same sense to make the claim Son of God, would have meant in the order of God. He also says the ancient Semitics and Orientals used the phrase Son of to indicate likeness and sameness of nature and equality of being.
ANyhooo.... regarding Revelation.... yeah, I know kinda iffy for the jw case. While many on here are ex jw. Many people who read some of these posts are not sure what to think. Your comments are much appreciated, hope your stay here is pleasant.
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WAS YOUR CONGREGATION A GOSSIP MILL?
by badboy in.
must dash,got a seat booked at the minibus cafe!.
my driver will be coming for me any moment now!.
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BlackSwan of Memphis
in every kh i have ever been to there has been major problems with gossip and cliques. i was on the butt end of the gossip mill once and after that people i never met knew me. if you're a dub and you want to date someone you better plan on spending the rest of your life with that person or you just might turn out to be the "class slut".
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Vigil for my daughter, please.
by outnfree inas mentioned in my other thread, my daughter lena is having brainsurgery on monday, jan 24. the surgery will last 6-7 hours, so i'm hoping the board members will be willing to make a special effort tomorrow to send positive thoughts, healing energy, good wishes and prayers her way.
we are asking that the surgeon's hands be delicate and skillful and that lena does not bleed overmuch and that brain damage be minimal (if not non-existant).
surgery begins at 8 am eastern standard time (us), but we have to have her to the hospital by 6 am, so this is "good night!
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BlackSwan of Memphis
Brenda,
That is such good news!! I kept my phone by me the whole day. I know that you're daughter was in great hands and the 'healing energy' coming from everyone was so powerful. Hugs to both of you!!!
blackswan